Sunday Interview - ‘The Line (of Control) will never change... Don’t fool people’

Former Union minister and Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah, who is also president of the state’s oldest political party, the National Conference, spoke to Yusuf Jameel at his Srinagar residence. Excerpts:

Do you think the People’s Democratic Party-Bharatiya Janata Party coalition government will complete its term given the ruckus we have witnessed in recent weeks?

That is for God to know. I can’t predict… I don’t have a talismi chirag which will tell me whether this government is going to survive or not. But yes, I see that there are so many differences within the coalition. One is North Pole and the other is South Pole. One can’t say how they are going to achieve their respective agenda and yet remain together. Also, completing the term depends on how you continue to bow before Delhi. If he (Mufti Muhammad Sayeed) continues to bow before Delhi at the expense of the wishes of the people of Jammu and Kashmir, then he is sinking himself… he is going to have a bitter end because people don’t forgive and they don’t forget.

You recently said that the NC will not allow a change in J&K’s demography. Do you really see such a threat?

There have been instances, voices. There have been attempts to issue Permanent Resident Certificates (PRCs) to school children. How do you know whether a student you are giving a PRC to is not from Bihar, Himachal Pradesh or somewhere else? There are a lot of people from all over India working in the state. How do you know they won’t be made J&K’s permanent residents? You can’t give citizenship rights to the (erstwhile) West Pakistan refugees either. But all bona fide Kashmiris or Jammuites, who are from the erstwhile maharaja’s state of Jammu and Kashmir, have every right to be citizens of this state.

The NC has alleged that attempts are being made to deprive the state of its special status as guaranteed by Article 370. Who is doing that?

Article 370 is the guiding force for the state’s unity with India. No one will be allowed to fiddle with it. When I was the chief minister, our duly elected Assembly had adopted autonomy resolution after debating the issue fully. Subsequently, it was submitted to the Centre for discussion and implementation. What did they do with it? Did they ever discuss the issue? It is collecting dust since then, just as the interlocutors’ report is. That is one of the things that bothers the younger generation of the state. We are not the ones who will throw bombs. The NC has never been the one to hurl stones or kill people. We got killed instead because we thought by resorting to violence we will lose the democratic method of having free and open discussions on issues. But I’m sorry to say that leaders in Delhi are not liberal in that.

As chief minister, and even while you were in Opposition, you would often seek an “aar ya paar” kind of engagement with Pakistan which you would say was the only option to end militancy in J&K. But now you ask that issues with Islamabad be resolved through peaceful dialogue. Why?

Let us be very clear on this — I’m not for Pakistan. But this too should be absolutely clear — the Line (of Control) will never change. Don’t fool people. We have fooled them too long. The Line is not going to change. Even (Pervez) Musharraf realised that and this Prime Minister (of Pakistan) realises it. What is, however, going to happen through discussion is improvement of ties between the two nations. If the LoC is declared as international border, it will make access easier. People will be able to travel easily between the two sides rather than having to undergo the cumbersome process it is today. Trade should be increased and thereby the animosity will gradually change into friendship. It will take time. It has taken us 60 years to come to this point.

I also want that talks should be held not only between the people of this Kashmir and the Government of India, but also between people of PoK and the Government of Pakistan. When India and Pakistan meet, the people of that region and this region should also meet so that friendly conditions can be created. Kashmir suffers and the people of the state are suffering because this situation exists. One or two flags of Pakistan were shown and since then no tourist is coming to Kashmir. Are we all Pakistanis? Look at the fear it has created in the minds of the people in India. It is the ordinary man of Kashmir who is suffering.

Do you think people outside J&K have overreacted to the waving of a few Pakistani flags at separatists’ rallies?

Have there not been Pakistani flags before? Ever since 1948, downtown (Srinagar) has always had Pakistani flags on Independence and Republic days and my policemen have always been there to bring them down. Has it made any difference? For just showing one flag you create such a hue and cry in the media. Ordinary Indian thinks we all must be Pakistanis, hence he is not safe in Kashmir. Today, Himachal Pradesh does not have a place for people to stay. And how many tourists do we get?

Going back to the 2008 Assembly elections, do you agree that it was wrong to allow “inexperienced hands” in the NC to lead the government in 2008?

It is important to give younger people a chance to work and lead while we (the older lot) are still in active politics. If they make mistakes, we can always correct them. My father selected me as president of the NC at a very young age. I didn’t have much experience. But under his guidance, I was able to learn much more in those few years than I could have ever learnt without him.

So, was it a good experience or a bad one to have Omar Abdullah as chief minister?

Experiences are always good. You learn from experiences. You learn by experiments. Some experiments prove to be quite good, some don’t. Probably our selections in 2008 were not the ones people wanted and I think we made a similar mistake in the last election. My absence did have an impact in the sense that I would have been far more in contact with the people and got those people to fight elections the ones masses wanted. We repeated many people who shouldn’t have been there.

Was it a condition of the Congress that you stay away and leave the hot seat for your son?

Let us be very frank, the Congress never liked me… It also appeared to them that I won’t be the right man to pull the alliance. Also, at the last minute my wife and I decided that I should not take over as chief minister again.

You say the Congress doesn’t like you but you have been their ally for so many years?

Ah! We may be allies but we have had very bitter bouts. Don’t forget my dismissal (in 1984); it was done by them. I was an elected chief minister, but did they care about that? If any experiment has to be done of removing a chief minister, it has to be done on the floor of the Assembly. They flouted that. There was a ruling from the Supreme Court that these things are not done in the governor’s house.

The NC and the Congress were virtually at loggerheads over certain vital issues all through the NC’s rule. In fact, occasionally, the two sides even washed their dirty linen in the open.

Indeed, they had been at the loggerheads. You see, unfortunately, most of the important portfolios were with the Congress. And I must be very honest — many times their delivery was not as good as it should have been. Many of my own MLAs lost touch with the people. They either stayed in Srinagar or in Jammu. I don’t think they would even visit their constituencies as often as they should have. These are some of the lessons that we have learnt.

Though your health wouldn’t permit it, do you think your contesting elections, or at least being around, could have made a difference in the 2014 Assembly elections?

I would not have contested, but had I been around some of the selections of (NC) candidates would have been different.

Being party president, you were not consulted?

There is no question of consulting me. I was not here at that very, very important time.

They didn’t get in touch with you even on the phone?

No, no, no. You can’t do these things on phones. These things are not done on Internet either.

Will you contest the next elections?

I will not contest any election in future. I will be around though, if God gives me life and strength.

What role do you see for yourself in J&K politics? Or would you like to play the role of a national-level politician?

I’m not going to return to national-level politics. My role is here, in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. I want to spend my last days here.

You are privy to several historical events that unfolded in J&K and beyond. Don’t you think it is time to share some of the inside stories with people?

I’m going to. Give me time.

Are you going to write another book?

A book is already in process. It will have such revelations that I wish I’m alive to hear the reactions and decisions about it.

Is it true that Sheikh sahib reluctantly agreed to the accord with Indira Gandhi in 1975, towards 1977 he regretted his decision and by 1980-81 wanted to call it a day and resume the plebiscite demand?

I don’t know about that. You should have asked him this question when he was alive. I didn’t get the opportunity to ask him this. What I know is that he would say that Pakistan has accepted that part of Kashmir to be a part of that country and this part of Kashmir a part of India.

What would have been his reaction if he were alive in 1990 when the Kashmiri youth turned to the gun to achieve what he had fought for over 22 years?

Let me be honest. Imandari se suno ge? If he were alive he would have been quite happy, rather thrilled, at seeing our children having reached the stage where they can turn to the gun to fight for their rights and fight for their watan (country). His joy would have known no bounds that finally the very people who couldn’t even talk or knew how to walk are ready to fight for their rights.