Sunday Interview - ‘Corruption can be eliminated through action, not bhashanbaazi, tamasha’

Whistleblower-bureaucrat Sanjiv Chaturvedi, who won the Ramon Magsaysay Award in the ‘Emergent Leadership’ category this year, talks about the hurdles he faced while fighting corruption in Haryana and at AIIMS, Delhi. In an interview to Shashi Bhushan, Mr Chaturvedi acknowledges Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s passion to fight corruption but also expresses his disappointment with the way the PMO functions.

Congratulations on winning the prestigious award. What does this mean to you?
This award is an affirmation of my belief in God. Also, it shows that I always stood for a greater cause and not for personal gain.

You are one of the few serving civil servants to receive this award. What message will it send out to other civil servants?
Duty done with integrity will get recognition. This award will also encourage honest officers to do their duty without fear and bias.

What were the major challenges you faced while fighting corruption?
It is a fight between unequals. The people against whom you are fighting are more resourceful. You are in a very disadvantageous position. They have all the power to influence the investigation. They can transfer you. And if the situation worsens, then you could be suspended or a false chargesheet could be filed against you.

Which assignment was more difficult, Haryana or All-India Institute of Medical Sciences?
Haryana is a state with an elected government and you work with people in the field. Some of them harbour criminal intent. So, there are chances that a criminal case could be fabricated and slapped on you. Also, chances of physical assault leading to loss of life cannot be ruled out. In institutions like AIIMS, you work with doctors and staff members, who are very competent and hard-working.

But at the same time there is a fringe group which is politically well connected. The budgetary support to AIIMS is to the tune of thousands of crores. When such phenomenal amounts of money are involved, there are chances of misuse and irregularities. So when you try to take action against such people a different kind of problem arises. The harassment is civil in nature, like stalling your annual confidential report, rejecting all your proposals, etc.

How widespread is corruption in India?
Corruption has spread deep inside the system. In developed countries, major cases of corruption are reported from the defence sector and stock markets, which are not directly related to the common man. But in India corruption starts from the street with a traffic constable and goes higher up. Corruption has seeped into our social system. It is not limited to illegal money transactions. Teachers not taking their classes is also a form of corruption.

What are the ways to end corruption?
To eliminate corruption, India’s leadership has to develop an effective system. This is not possible until the lethal nexus between bureaucrats and politicians is broken. Strict action, not bhashanbaazi, tamasha and nautanki, is the way forward. Currently, our leadership is more engrossed in bhashanbaazi against corruption. Hollow speeches cannot make our country corruption-free. A proper system should be in place to protect the honest and punish the corrupt.

Which was the most difficult phase of your 13-year career?
My five-month suspension, from July 2007 to January 2008, was the toughest phase of my career. It was my first posting. Legally speaking, suspension is not punishment, but it is a social stigma. You cannot tell your family, friends and relatives that you have been placed under suspension because their first impression is that you must have done something wrong.

Why are you disappointed with the PMO?
I am disappointed with the functioning of the PMO as I followed the Prime Minister’s policy of zero tolerance of corruption. Believing in Mr Modi’s slogan “Na khaunga, na khane dunga”, I started working with passion and capacity against various corrupt elements who were far more powerful and well placed. For acting against the corrupt elements at AIIMS, I was removed from the post of chief vigilance officer, AIIMS. Within 24 hours, 20 signatures were recorded to remove me from the CVO’s post.

Documents collected through an RTI application reveal that on August 23 last year Mr Modi spoke to the then health minister, Dr Harsh Vardhan, and sought a report on my removal.

Then the health secretary submitted a report that contradicted his May 23 stand where he had praised my services. To mislead the general public, they said that no prior approval had been taken for my appointment as the CVO of AIIMS. An RTI application revealed that in the history of AIIMS no prior approval from the CVC was sought for the appointment of AIIMS’ CVO. All this happened when I had the protection of the PMO and my appointment as CVO had the approval of the AIIMS governing body and institute body. I presented all the facts before the PMO and demanded a fair probe into the matter. Instead, my reasonable and lawful proposal related to promotion, cadre change and deputation was kept pending for months. The PMO’s silence on the issue has disappointed me.

What kept you going despite the harassment?
My grandfather was a freedom fighter. My strength to fight kept motivating me. I believe that whosoever stands for truth faces problems, but, at the end of the day, truth and honesty prevail. I have experienced this during my service.

What do you have to say about our judicial system?
We have an independent and robust judiciary that takes decisions based only on facts and evidence. Whenever I was forced to approach the courts, the decisions were based on merit. I am thankful towards our legal fraternity. None of the lawyers charged me a single penny for any of my cases.

Were people around you supportive during your fight against corruption?
I fought my battle thanks to the support of my family, friends, colleagues and subordinate staff. People in general, also came forward and supported me.
Usually it is seen that when you are fighting against strong and powerful people you are left alone. However, in my case, more and more people joined me.