Sunday Interview: ‘Nitish has my support… I haven’t accepted him as my leader’

Displaying confidence about the prospects of his secular front, Rashtriya Janata Dal chief Lalu Prasad Yadav, while talking to Nayear Azad, said that the Janata alliance was formed to stop communal forces from coming to power and would ensure the “ghar wapsi” of the Bharatiya Janata Party.

Why did you take so long to accept Nitish Kumar as the chief ministerial candidate for the upcoming Assembly elections?
I have said it earlier and I am saying it to you too that I have not accepted Mr Kumar as my leader. Mr Kumar is the chief minister of Bihar and he has the support of my party. We have come together to stop communal forces from coming to power. We discussed this issue several times that not only Bihar but the entire country needs a secular front and with this purpose we met several times in New Delhi and chose Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav as our leader. We are gradually moving towards merging into one party. Since there are several technical aspects to it, we decided to fight elections together to stop the BJP. That is our agenda. Mr Kumar is a secular leader. In a meeting in New Delhi, in the presence of Mr Mulayam Singh Yadav, we discussed to extend our support to Mr Kumar as chief ministerial candidate.

What exactly did you mean when you said “I am ready to drink poison”? Does this mean there is some bitterness between you and Mr Kumar?
There is no question of differences with Mr Kumar at all. We have been together several times earlier as well. It was Mr Kumar who made me the Leader of Opposition when Karpoori Thakur had died in the year 1988. It has always been my top agenda to stop communal forces, I was the one who had stopped BJP leader L.K. Advani’s rath and arrested him and I will continue to fight communal forces. Our only priority is BJP’s “ghar wapsi” and for that we are ready to consume poison also and this is the only reason we came together on one platform.

People have been waiting to see you and Mr Kumar share a dais. On at least two big occasions he chose to stay away.
We are chalking out strategies. We will definitely share a dais and campaign together for the upcoming elections. You were here and you saw Mr Kumar and me together on my birthday. We will begin campaigning soon, both parties are meeting and talking regularly about our campaign. Our issues and agenda are clear, we both have to go to the people of Bihar and inform them about how Prime Minister Narendra Modi cheated them on the issue of black money and other issues.

The BJP has once again accused you of causing a deterioration of law and order in Bihar. They say Lalu Yadav is mascot for “jungle raj”.
(Taking a dig at the BJP)… They will stop the “jungle raj”, “BJP karegi pehla kaam, jungle raaj pe poorna viram” this is going to be their slogan against us... is it? BJP has ruined Bihar by saying there is “jungle raj” in Bihar. They keep saying “Bihar mein jungle raj hai yahan mat aao” (don’t come to Bihar, the situation is here very bad). Even those Biharis who were living outside and wanted to invest in Bihar couldn’t, as there was only negative publicity by the BJP about the law and order situation. BJP now has a government in Jharkhand and what is the condition there? People are being killed in broad daylight and investors are not coming to this mineral-rich state.

The BJP is a party of propaganda; they make false propaganda for their own benefit. Do you see any lawlessness in Bihar? You are also from Bihar, tell me where is the “jungle raj”? They are the ones who are responsible for “jungle raj” and despite all these things today Bihar has developed. The BJP hates me because I speak about the backwards, the poor and the welfare of the minorities. Lalu Yadav is not scared of anyone.

No one can pressure me into doing anything against my conviction. I have always faced challenges and I am still ready to face it for the sake of the people of Bihar. I know my responsibility, I do politics of grassroots and I am confident that this secular alliance will stop the BJP in Bihar and then in Uttar Pradesh. They are trying very hard to woo the people in West Bengal but that will never happen. Why couldn’t they win in Delhi if people were so convinced of Mr Modi or if they liked him so much? They only know how to shout, people have already started turning away from them. We have seen it in Delhi.

You didn’t stop Raghuvansh Prasad Singh when he declared that Mr Kumar is not fit to be declared the chief ministerial candidate.
What Raghuvansh Babu said was misunderstood. He spoke about what party supporters felt. We are political people. We were never against Mr Kumar. See, I cannot become chief minister till I get acquitted and nobody from my family is interested in becoming chief minister and Mr Kumar is already the chief minister of Bihar. Raghuvansh Prasad had advised that we should avoid projecting Mr Kumar before elections are over, what else did he say? There is another misconception that I got pressured by the Congress, but the truth is Mr Kumar went to meet Rahul Gandhi after discussing things with me and I was aware of what happened during the meeting with Mr Gandhi. Later when we met in New Delhi we reached a consensus that we should declare Mr Kumar as the candidate for
chief minister.

You wanted Jitan Ram Manjhi to join your secular front. Instead he went knocking on the BJP’s door in New Delhi. How do you see this?
I never disliked Jitan Ram Manjhi and wanted him to join our secular front, instead he chose to tie up with the BJP. He did a wrong thing; he was being used by the BJP. He accused me of helping Mr Kumar, I had clarified in March after Mr Manjhi had resigned that my party’s support was to the JD(U) and not to any particular leader. What he did is his own decision. We had stopped him as we felt it was our duty.

Why do you think your alliance with the JD(U) and the Congress could pose a threat to the BJP? They have two strong dalit leaders — Ram Vilas Paswan, and now Jitan Ram Manjhi. Do you think your MYD (Muslim-Yadav-Dalit) combination has scattered?
The Muslim, Yadav and dalit combination is still as strong as it was before. And it will not break no matter what happens.

The Pappu Yadav factor?
Yes, some people are even taking Pappu Yadav seriously. Now tell me, is he a person to be taken that seriously? What support does he have? Yadavs are a strong political caste and they know what’s right and what’s wrong for them. This alliance will break the National Democratic Alliance. In the previous two elections in Bihar, the NDA gained because we (Nitish and Lalu) were not together, but now when we are going to contest in an alliance — our votes clubbed together will prove more fatal for the BJP. They are bound to lose this time.

And Mr Manjhi?
Mr Manjhi is not a factor anymore.  Do you think Ram Vilas Paswan will let him survive in the NDA?

You had once said that if Mr Kumar is declared a candidate your Yadav vote bank will split. Has it split? BJP leader Sushil Kumar Modi claims that the dalits and Yadavs are showing their sincerity towards the BJP and they are ready to leave you in favour of Mr Modi.
Not a single Yadav will go to the BJP. They are spreading false propaganda. As I said earlier, they are a very strong community and have been with me since the JP movement and Sushil Kumar Modi knows this as he was my deputy during the JP movement. He has seen how the Yadavs were in our favour. Muslims and Yadavs will never go anywhere else. I have information that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is also taking a keen interest in the Bihar elections. Why? Because they know how tough this election is going to be for them and they are shaking out of fear.

How do you see the series of promises made by the Modi government? Do you think such announcements and promises could affect your poll prospects?
(Laughs) People are waiting to teach them a lesson for making false promises. They are very angry. Where is the black money? People are still waiting eagerly for that Rs 15 lakh to be credited to their bank accounts. They say it was a political “jumla”. What right did Narendra Modi have to lie to these poor people? Similarly, the BJP tried to cheat the farmers of this country. The BJP has been moving around with a battery of big industrialists and trying to help them by grabbing the farmers’ land. How can we allow this? We will protest against their agenda.

Is there any consensus on seat-sharing yet? How many seats is your party willing to contest on?
“Jab Dil mil gaya hai to ye bhi ho jayega.” We are still discussing it. Party’s committee will decide all these things. It’s not just the RJD and the JD(U), we also have the Congress. Then we have the Nationalist Congress Party. Things will be sorted out soon and I am sure there won’t be any trouble on the issue of seat-sharing amongst us. The only agenda is to stop the BJP and we are all committed to do that.