Sunday Interview: The fight with Pakistan is an ideological fight'

P. Muralidhar Rao, BJP national general secretary feels that fight with Pakistan is an ideological fight. In an interview with Cynthia Chandran, Mr Rao says that this is an existential war for both the countries. Excerpts:

The Congress has been alleging that the Uri terror attack has been completely stage-managed by the BJP. Why has the BJP government delayed its response?

Such an allegation is an insult to the brave soldiers. Unless and until top AICC leadership has not made such a baseless allegation, I do not wish to comment on it further. The BJP government has been most mature and competent and it can handle any issue. We have complete faith in the government’s wisdom and competence. Our responses will be at the time of our choice. BJP government’s response will be beneficial for the country. Prime Minister Narendra Modi is a man who can unite.

The BJP has been projecting patriotism and jingoism for quite some time. In the imminent elections in Uttar Pradesh, Punjab and Uttarakhand, there are several thousands of soldiers coming from these three states. How do you think the party would address this issue?

It is unfortunate that the nationalist approach of the BJP — in the manner in which it handled the issue or its aggressiveness — has been seen as chauvinism. You have to understand that we are in conflict with Pakistan. The fight with Pakistan is not a fight with its neighbour; it is an ideological fight. When they fight for Kashmir, it not on legal aspects, it is the fight between a theory of two nations. Their theory of nation is rooted in attacking us. If you accept this theory in 2016, there is no basis for our Constitution, no basis for our neighbourhood and there is no basis for the present Indian integrity and unity. So this is an existential war for both the countries. Unless Pakistan relinquishes its concept of utility in 2016 or in future, you cannot accept it.

The other important issue is that Pakistan has taken up the means of terrorism to resolve various disputes with India. It is encouraging terror camps, terror organisations and terrorists. If you remove this, there is no fight in the Kashmir Valley. Violence and terrorism is completely exported and completely supported by Pakistan by all means. Now because of this approach, Pakistan itself has become a victim of terror. And India is already afflicted with it. This terrorism is causing problems for the entire world. Every country has started recognising Pakistan as a terrorist state  as terrorism is an issue that affects the entire world and its peace. We have to understand this. Cutting across all political barriers, we must transcend to reach an understanding to understand that it is a complex issue. In Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand, it is not just Pakistan. The issue in UP is development and the BJP is not interested in raising nationalism in the elections there.

There is a general perception that PM Narendra Modi is announcing a slew of schemes, but his government is not a “performing” one. Is it so?

This question is not rooted in facts. After Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power, you must observe that all pro-poor programmes — that have been started in the first or second year — were path breaking. In the coming days, it will create greater impact, not just in terms of politics, but in the long term of the empowerment of society. Party stands for the poor, deprived and the downtrodden and agriculture and rural areas. Take for example, the pro-poor Jan Dhan Yojna. People may criticise these programmes in a given context.

I am not saying these programmes at that point of time are incorrect. Naturally when we start a programme these things you have to pass through. So progressively Jan Dhan Yojna programme is going to be a world record not in terms of opening accounts but in the long term inclusive development that is going to create milestones in several aspects in reducing the corruption, in reducing the leakages and in creating a kind of connectedness and in increasing the trust and faith of the governance.

There are many poor people. So through direct cash transfer, subsidies and transfer of fertiliser subsidy, gas subsidy, freedom fighters pension, handicapped pension, old age pension and scholarships  a kind of “financial highway” has been created. These are going to be  important. In the same way you see the poor, stand up programme in each branch, SC/ST and women entrepreneurs have to be identified and groomed and mentored. So don’t judge the PM in the first year, but in the long run you can see a crop of entrepreneurs. All these yojnas prove that under this government and  under Modiji’s leadership, this government will become a pro-poor government. In this direction, party is also mobilising its cadres that are  reaching the poor to create awareness and information.
 
The Goods and Services Tax has been passed and the perception is that it will lead to  huge changes, but will it benefit the poor?

Here, any tax reform is a great reform in this country which was long overdue. It could not be implemented earlier for whatever may be the reason. Today, the Modi government has been able to push it. It has now become a law. The tax and the reforms will have an impact in the long run. So now it is not yet implemented. After one or two years when it becomes normal, then the consumers specially the poor will also feel its impact.

Mr Modi’s style of functioning has always been criticised by his political detractors alleging that he is not taking everyone along?

Mr Modi is accessible and the most visible leader. He is very active and travels widely. His critics are only trying to distort and create misinformation. They are giving a wrong perception about him but they won’t be able to sustain it as Mr Modi is able to communicate and relate with everyone. He is the only politician in the country who is able to sustain his image. He has a huge popularity. Secondly he is able to regularly connect with such people.

He is constantly interacting with people where he is inviting ideas from the government, he is inviting ideas for various schemes and various aspects. This is the first time a PM is democratising the policy process by using the technology. Can anybody refute this? It’s not a one way process. He is asking the people by putting the queries on the website, what are the ideas of the government, feedback of the various ministers... This is happening for the first time in the country’s political history. It is completely a new era where Mr Modi is using new technology to his advantage.
 
There has been a debate in the CPI(M) by the former general secretary Prakash Karat alleging that BJP stands for fascist movement while his successor Sitaram Yechury says the party stands for proletarian. Who is actually ideologically wrong?

The Communist Party has become isolated. You cannot say that CPI(M) exists everywhere and in every state. Why has it happened? They are imprisoned by the cadre bureaucracy. In fact, the cadre can also become the bureaucracy, a suffocating and strangulating bureaucracy. It becomes only one channel for the people to interact with the party leadership. And the BJP leadership interacts with the party supporters in a parallel way — by using technology.

Though BJP is a cadre-based party, our functioning is not confined to cadre reach out. We have parallel ways of interacting with the people and this is the party which has always shown innate capacity, learn and accept new things. This is the party which stands for the poor and for small entrepreneurs as well as small marginalised farmers.

Despite the BJP having the maximum number of dalit MPs, recently there has been a dalit uprising against the BJP. Do you fear that it will affect forthcoming elections in UP and Punjab, where Dalits make up 48 per cent of the
population?

Dalit sections remained as vote banks for Congress for so long. Also, there are certain parties that claim to do dalit politics. In 2014, the BJP has emerged as a party which has the maximum number of Scheduled Caste constituencies. We have a good number of MLAs for BJP under the SC category. The base of BJP in dalit constituencies is growing. So there is a threat perception for the monopolist parties who want to retain their claim.

They are now engrossed in spreading clashes between the dalit and the BJP. In fact the dalit communities are in no manner a threat to the BJP. Because they undertake the project for whom it is generating. If you look at Jan  Dhan Yojna, which has been conceived for dalits, we have been able to achieve 100 per cent results. It is the Modi government which is committed to Ambedkar’s philosophies.

When it comes to contentious issues like Uniform Civil Code and Ramjanmabhoomi, what has the BJP done? Has BJP shelved Ramjanmabhoomi?

Uniform Civil Code is part of the directive principles. Courts are interested and the Supreme Court is talking about it. Ultimately when the court is taking up the topics, you all will be discussing. Definitely they are contentious issues until perceptions are clear, unless a consensus is developed you cannot have an approach which is a long pending issue before the nation.

It is not the BJP or the Congress or some other party but the issues are before the country. It does not mean that increasing or widening the conflict or the interest of the country. We are interested in peace and stability, harmony and progress. The BJP has taken, in the last two and a half years, all such issues which ensured peace. It is part of our agenda/manifesto. But we have not front-loaded Ramjanmabhoomi issue even in the elections. It is before the Supreme Court; certain avenues are there. As a nation we have to resolve it.