Q&A: Two world wars were fought in the name of nationalism'

Umar Khalid, a Ph.D. student from Jawaharlal Nehru University facing sedition charges, says he does not believe in the concept of nationalism, is an atheist, a communist and a patriot. In an interview with Sanjay Basak and Sushmita Ghosh, Mr Khalid points out that it’s the Indian state which believes in Mao’s tenet: ‘Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.’

What is nationalism to you?
Individually, I don’t subscribe to any brand of nationalism. I would rather look at myself as an internationalist who thinks of a world without borders. One needs to look at these things historically otherwise one will always be trapped in a political agenda which is divisive and dangerous — two world wars were fought in the name of nationalism and several wars in the name of national security.

What’s the line dividing nationalism and patriotism?
I will answer that with an anecdote from my interaction with the cops. During the first couple of days, policemen during the interrogation told me, “Jis desh ka khate ho, usi ke khilaf bolte ho, usi ko todne ki baat karte ho.” Initially I kept quiet, fearing that I might be slapped for my replies. Later, when I realised they are not going to do anything, I told one of them that the country is an abstract concept, let’s talk about that.

I asked him, “Kiska khate ho, kaun zameen banata hai, kaun beej, fasal ugata hai?” He said, “Kisan.” I pointed out that the government is planning to push through the Land Acquisition Bill, after that what will be the plight of farmers? Where will he go, what will he do? I asked him that in that scenario, “Kaun kiska khata hai?” He kept quiet. I told them that people trying to push through the legislation are calling themselves nationalists. A nation is made of people, and one needs to love them and treat them alike. To be a patriot means to be with the people. Nationalism is used for an agenda which is totally different.

Union finance minister Arun Jaitley recently said that this government has won the ideological war on nationalism. That people who were raising anti-national slogans are now forced to say “Bharat Mata ki Jai”.
No doubt it was an ideological offensive. This offensive was more to scare than to harm. It was meant to silence important issues raised by the students movement. If one looks at the last two years, it has been the student movement which has been at the forefront of major opposition to this government. Opposing its saffronisation of universities from FTII to Jadavpur, from JNU to HCU. Through this ideological offensive, the government thought that it would silence the students. But it has failed. If Mr Jaitley thinks like that I feel it’s a short-sighted analysis.

What are your views on Kashmir?
The role of both India and Pakistan in Kashmir has been a blot on humanity. Both have not seen Kashmir from any other prism except for political, economic and strategic interests. There should be a resolution on Kashmir.

Your father had said that you are being punished because of his former links with the banned outfit, Students Islamic Movement of India.
A section of the media acted as a lynch mob. Certain journalists ran stories, posted on Twitter and somehow tried to establish some terrorist link. They did not even bother to check that my father had quit SIMI even before I was born.

You have been criticising Prime Minister Narendra Modi and accusing the government of targeting JNU...
Mr Modi is not an individual. Mr Modi represents a political ideology, he represents a political force which is the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the Bharatiya Janata Party. Mr Modi also represents the capitalists and corporates. JNU stands against all these and has been at the forefront in opposing the communal, fascist agenda unleashed by the brahmanical kind.

How do you justify students’ politics in an educational institution?
This is the thing media has been harping on: “Tum rajneeti kyu karte ho, tum padhai karo.” Why not politics? We are above 18 years of age and as per the Constitution, we all should have the right to participate in politics, we have the right to vote. Democracy is not just about voting every five years. We are adult citizens of the country and have as much right to do politics. Venkaiah Naidu said, “Rajneeti karni hai to padhai choro aur rajneeti karo.” If BJP believes this then it should close down Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad. Actually they are not against students’ politics, they are against a particular kind of politics. A politics which questions them.

Kanhaiya Kumar has emerged as a national figure because of this movement…
Mr Kumar is not an individual. He is associated with a political party, the Communist Party of India. He’s a member of CPI’s student wing, All-India Students’ Federation. Mr Kumar should use this moment beyond electoral politics or electoral ambitions of CPI. If he does that, he will do justice to the movement. If he confines himself to parliamentary dynamics, the victory, if achieved, will be short lived. Radical possibilities thrown up by the present moment will not be realised.

Charu Majumdar, one of the founder leaders of the Naxalbari movement, had later admitted that the annihilation policy followed by the Naxals was wrong. But it is still being followed by the CPI(Maoist).
If anyone who believes in Mao’s tenet — “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun” — it’s the Indian state. Look at the land grabbing in Chhattisgarh. The barrel of the gun has become larger over the last 10-15 years when Salwa Judum was formed. Operation Green Hunt has been intensified under the Modi government. Police officials with dubious track records of using rape as a weapon of war have been brought back by the administration in Chhattisgarh.