Modi: Pakistan turned down peace bids

New Delhi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in a podcast released on Sunday, said that every attempt to foster peace with Pakistan was met with hostility and betrayal and hoped for improved bilateral ties with Islamabad. During the over three-hour-long interaction, Mr Modi talked about his bond of mutual trust with US President Donald Trump, competition with China, his early life, his journey to the Himalayas, the RSS and post-Godhra riots, among other issues.

In an interaction with US podcaster Lex Fridman, replying to a question on Pakistan, Mr Modi recalled that he had specially invited then Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony in 2014 with the hope that the two countries could turn a new leaf. He said despite India’s efforts to foster peace between the two countries, “every noble attempt was met with hostility and betrayal. We sincerely hope that wisdom prevails upon them and they choose the path of peace.”

Mr Modi said he believes that even the people of Pakistan long for peace because they also must be tired of living in strife, unrest and relentless terror where even innocent children are killed and countless lives are destroyed.

The Prime Minister said his first attempt at improving bilateral relations was a gesture of goodwill. "It was a diplomatic gesture unlike any in decades. The very people who once questioned my approach to foreign policy were taken aback when they learnt I had invited all Saarc heads of state," he said, adding the effort sent a clear message to the world about India's commitment to peace and harmony, but “we didn't get the desired outcome”.

Hailing Mr Trump as a man of courage who took his own decisions, Mr Modi said the US President is unwaveringly dedicated to the United States. The same spirit was on display when he was shot at by a gunman on the election campaign trail last year.

Mr Modi said Mr Trump appears far more prepared than before in his second term. "He has a clear roadmap in his mind with well-defined steps, each one designed to lead him toward his goals," he said on Mr Trump's second term as the President.

On China, the Prime Minister said the relationship between India and China is not something new, as both have ancient cultures and civilisations. He said for centuries both countries have learnt from each other and have always contributed to the global good.

“Our ties have been extremely strong with deep cultural connections. It is true that there have been ongoing border disputes between us. And in 2020, the incident along the border created significant tensions between our countries. However, after my recent meeting with President XI Jinping, we have seen a return of normalcy at the border,” said Mr Modi.

On the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict, Mr Modi said it can only be resolved when both sides join the negotiation table while asserting that there can never be a resolution on the battlefield. He clarified that India is not neutral but firmly committed to peace.

Highlighting his good relations with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Mr Modi said that he can urge Russia that war is not the solution while reminding Ukraine that battlefields do not bring real solutions.

"The resolution will only come when both Ukraine and Russia come to the negotiating table. Ukraine may hold countless discussions with their allies, but it will bear no fruit. Discussions must include both parties," he said.

Mr Modi also said that after Covid-19, it seemed like the world would come together, but instead, it became more fragmented, with multiple conflicts emerging globally.

The Prime Minister added that international institutions have become irrelevant, and organisations like the UN are failing to fulfill their purpose due to not undergoing necessary reforms. "The world must move away from conflict and embrace coordination," he said and reiterated that progress will come through development and not expansionism.

Noting that democracy thrives on sharp and fearless criticism, the PM also shared his perspective on criticism. He said criticism is the soul of democracy and differentiated between well-researched and fact-based critique and baseless allegations.

The PM also recalled his three promises he made 24 years ago — he will never shy away from hard work, never act with bad intent and never work for personal gain.

On the post-Godhra riots, Mr Modi said that the perception that the 2002 riots were the biggest riots ever in Gujarat was an attempt to push misinformation.

"If you review the data from before 2002, you will see that Gujarat faced frequent riots. Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence would erupt over trivial issues such as kite-flying contests or even bicycle collisions," he said, adding the riots in Gujarat in 1969 lasted for more than six months and that was an era when he was nowhere on the political horizon.

Mr Modi said the Godhra train burning incident took place barely three days after he was elected as a legislator of the Gujarat Assembly.

"It was a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude, people were burnt alive. You can imagine, against the backdrop of incidents like the Kandahar hijacking, the attack on parliament, or even 9/11, and then to have so many people killed and burnt alive, you can imagine how tense and volatile the situation was," he said.

"Nothing should happen, we also wish so. Everyone would wish there should be peace," said Mr Modi, who was the Gujarat chief minister at that time. He said the big incident at Godhra was the sparking point. Violence took place and a fake narrative was spread regarding the Godhra case.

"But, the courts investigated the matter thoroughly and found us completely innocent. Those who were truly responsible have faced justice from the courts," he said.

The Prime Minister said his political opponents were in power at the Centre when the violence took place and they were keen to see him punished over the allegations. Despite their relentless efforts, the judiciary analysed the situation meticulously twice and ultimately found us completely innocent, Mr Modi said.

The Prime Minister said the most important thing was that Gujarat, which used to witness violence almost every year, has not seen riots since 2002.

The Prime Minister said his approach has always been to avoid vote bank politics.

To a question on the RSS, the PM described it as a “sacred” organisation and said he feels blessed to have learnt life's values from it. He said the RSS gave him the purpose of his life, noting that its different affiliates are involved in numerous fields and with every section of society.

A former RSS pracharak himself before moving over to the BJP, Mr Modi said he was drawn to the Hindutva organisation at a young age as he was touched deeply by patriotic songs sung at its shakha near his home in Gujarat. "Whatever one does, one should work for the country," he said, speaking of the RSS' philosophy.

During his interaction, the PM also praised the Election Commission, which often comes under fire from the Opposition parties. Praising the EC as "neutral and independent," Mr Modi said that its management of the world's largest democratic exercise should be studied by the global community.

The podcast with Mr Modi was described as “one of the most moving and powerful conversations and experiences” by the podcaster, who even told Mr Modi at one point he was observing a fast for 45 hours and having only water “in honour of you and interaction so that we can talk spiritually”.

The PM expressed gratitude for his thoughtful gesture and then spoke about its benefits and that fasting is a form of self-discipline for him. Mr Fridman is a podcaster and a computer scientist and has worked at MIT's Laboratory for Information and Decision Systems.