Sunday Interview: Dalits face Rohith's ordeals daily... Pity we have no Lincoln'

Udit Raj, Bharatiya Janata Party MP and dalit leader, firm in his belief that untouchability against dalits is all-pervasive, says that Rohith Vemula’s suicide could have been prevented if some positive action had been taken. In an interview with Manish Anand,

Dr Raj rues the fact that India will never see an Abraham Lincoln as even
the likes of Mahatma Gandhi and Swami Vivekananda advocated eradication of caste evils but not the caste system.

What do you have to say about Rohith Vemula’s suicide?
It is a very unfortunate incident. But let me tell you, it’s the order of the day. The only difference is that the Vemula incident has got national attention. But the ordeals faced by Vemula are experienced by dalit students every day in schools and colleges. Upper-caste students do not even eat meals with dalits. Dalits face discrimination in all forms.

How do you see the agitation following Vemula’s suicide and the subsequent political interest in the case?
Whenever such incidents take place, the so-called “learned” people cry and make noise. But why they did not raise the issue before? Now they are coming forward to champion the dalit cause, but where were they when teaching vacancies were not filled up? When hostels remained in dilapidated conditions? When scholarships were not given? When the University Grants Commission did not spend the money (2012-13) meant for Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes?

If they were consistent in championing the cause of dalits, Vemula would not have committed suicide. We face untouchability everywhere. Even the media is not an exception. Many media conclaves are held each year. Have you ever seen any dalit speaker in attendance? You see Muslim representatives, but out of 30 crore dalits, not even one dalit speaker is invited.

There has been criticism about the manner in which the National Democratic Alliance government and the BJP reacted to the incident. Further, the BJP is facing much flak for minister of state for external affairs Gen. V.K. Singh’s statement on dalits (on the murder of two dalit children in Faridabad in 2015).
The BJP did not subscribe to the statement of Gen. Singh and he tendered an apology. The Congress also faced such backlash in the past when Mirchpur caste violence took place in Haryana in 2010.
P.L. Punia, the then chairman of National Commission for the Scheduled Castes, had called Haryana a state of rapists when the state was headed by Bhupinder Singh Hooda.

There were many incidents in the past that went unreported. It’s a matter of chance. I know about an incident when five dalits were lynched on suspicion that they had killed a cow in Jhajjar, Haryana.

If untouchability is all-pervasive, as you say, then do you suggest that all positive steps taken in the past six decades have failed in achieving their objectives?
The affirmative actions were unveiled at a time when social “welfarism” was the nature of the state. Business is in control of the state now. The character of the state has been redefined, with the government’s role becoming minimal. But even in the past, schemes and funds meant for SC/STs were not implemented or spent.

Then you support the contention of Lok Sabha Speaker Sumitra Mahajan that the reservation policy should be reviewed?
Ms Mahajan spoke in a different context. Had the reservation policy been implemented in true spirit, there would have been no need for quotas/reservations.

Are you suggesting that since there are not many jobs in the public sector, there should be quotas in some form in the private sector?
I would rather favour common schooling system as is the case in Latin America and even the United States, where curriculum, faculty and facilities are same for everyone. In such a scenario, no one would opt for private schools and that will, in the end, help the nation’s progress.

It’s a misfortune that in India there’s no one like Abraham Lincoln, who advocated rights for blacks. Why don’t I find a Lincoln in India? We had Mahatma Gandhi and Swami Vivekananda who advocated eradication of caste evils, but not the caste system altogether.

The proposal for quota in promotion for SC/STs is still pending with the Lok Sabha where your party has a majority. When will it be passed?
If this bill is not passed, it may become detrimental to the interests of the SC/STs. Those who are superintendent engineers would be demoted to executive engineers. You can imagine the kind of humiliation they would have to face.

There is a counter-argument that those belonging to the general category too feel humiliated when their juniors become their bosses...
The Indian Institute of Technology and research and development departments are full of upper-caste people. What contributions they have made so far? The judiciary is full of upper caste, but see the kind of justice being delivered.
Reservation in jobs first came in southern states of Travancore (1935), Mysore, Kolhapur (1902), Madras (1921) and they are all much developed than north Indian states where reservation came much later.

But the BJP is feeling much heat on the dalit issue and there are Assembly elections in Assam, West Bengal, Punjab, etc. this year.
In 1996, the I.K. Gujral and H.D. Deve Gowda governments at the Centre had issued five orders. Had the governments completed their terms, these orders would have wiped out reservations from the country.

It was only Atal Behari Vajpayee, who brought three Constitution Amendments (81st, 82nd, and 85th), which negated the consequences of those five orders.
But what did the Congress do in the last 10 years when the bill passed by the Rajya Sabha in 2004 for quota in promotion was pending in the Lok Sabha?